I see Shawn (a TF user) has gone ahead to deconstruct Twilight and reconstruct it in the light of the Bible. I am not going to go as far as he has, we clearly differ on views but I figured I may as well offer what I consider to be a more balanced view.

 

Vampires - The Cold Ones

Dictionary.com says of the word cold:

indifferent, unconcerned, apathetic, dull, heartless, hostile, unfriendly, inmical

 

Biblically speaking, someone who is cold is someone who has lost the love of the truth or of the Bible. 

"And because lawlessness shall be multiplied, the love of many shall grow cold" I think the only rational understanding of a cold one - a vampire - is someone who is unloving. And it's true. All of the Cullens and rest of the vampires killed other human beings at one point, after a few decades, started empathizing, but even Jasper, a guy that can feel what his victims are going through, took years to stop his practice of killing both vampires and humans. How cold can you get?

 

In respect to the Bible, Vampires are sinners who do not have love in their hearts. That's fact. Something no one seems to dare to say, or acknowledge. Sure the Cullens are a slight exception, since they choose not to kill humans (anymore), but they've been around for decades. Anyone, would even the slight conscience, would have stopped killing humans for food after a few decades. And we don't even know if they stopped killing humans for the right reasons. Did they do it for humanitarian reasons, or because people would start to correlate the Cullens absence to the deaths of humans? They have a dullness, a lack of passion in contrast to the Shapeshifters. They are all the things described above in the definition. Because killing other human beings is a heinous sin, even to do so once, would be bad enough, regardless of any fleshly thirst, or whip of emotion at the time. By siding with the vampires, I would be saying what they have done is OK, when it isn't. Drinking blood is a sin. Killing humans is a sin. Vampires are a metaphor for sinners.Vampires represent a life where one has lost love  and become self-centered. To survive, they have to kill. They take pleasure out of killing others. The type of person that gets some girl pregnant, and leaves them to bring it up on their own. Someone who is cold. Someone who does damage to those around them, not caring about the consequences, only their own gratification. 

 

Sucking the life out of a human without caring about the consequences of that on the victim and the damage it will do is cold. Bella's dad is one of the people that have to investigate and talk to the families of those that have lost loved ones and he is clearly completely drained because of it, not only because of this, but because he is divorced. 

 

Shapeshifters - The Hot Ones

Dictionary.com says of the word hot:"  

expressing or feeling intense emotion, zealous

passionate

informal  sexually attractive

 impressive or good of its kind (esp in the phrase not sohot )

 

The Bible says of the word hot, that it means zealous, it's definetely a good thing, contrasting (say) the hotness of the Philadelphia assembly and their zeal to the coldness of the Laodacian assembly in Revelation 3. In all these respects, shapeshifters are zealous, and passionate people who still have real love in their hearts. Hence Jacob's attempt to try to save Bella from turning herself in to a Vampire. Jacob had true love for Bella and many times he told her, he doesn't want her being transformed in to a cold one, soulless and dead. Metaphorically, I think it's also about virginity, and Jacob not wanting Bella to lose her virginity to a cold one, someone who doesn't care about her. But I also think Jacob doesn't want Bella to get hurt. He's willing to sacrifice everything to ensure she is safe and he's a mortal. The vampires can be compared to the "spiritually dead", but the shapeshifters couldn't be more opposite. They are so alive and animative, they transform in to another shape to combat their enemies. Choosing to be vampires over shapeshifters, is like choosing to be spiritually dead than spiritually alive, and not about morality, but simply about individuality. The only reason Christians are choosing vampire over shapeshifter and then trying to support the view from the Bible, is because their sense of morality is way off. I would choose shapeshifters any day, they believe in family, children, co-operation and most of all love. As I told Shawn, What do the Shapeshifters do that is sinful? He didn't reply back on that one. Clearly, vampires are the sinners and the Shapeshifters are trying to stop people going down that route.

 

Conclusion

I estimate that 90% of the people on TF choose vampire over shapeshifter ,which is OK, my concern is when Christians do so and then try to give a Biblical explanation as to why, lol. It really is funny. And then I hear excuses as to why and how killing humans or drinking blood is OK when the Bible says these things are sinful. Why would I choose vampire over werewolf? Vampires cannot cease from sin, they can't even sleep. And no matter what the media does to glamorize or try to make me sympathetic towards them, my morals are still intact, there' no way I would even like to be a vampire. Don't let that soft voice and sparkly skin entice. It's all a lie. Hope that clarifies Shawn. 

 

Thanks

Shapes

 

 

 

Views: 10

Tags: Bible, Christian, Shapeshifter, Vampire, Werewolf

Comment by TwilightTrinity AKA Shaun on June 14, 2011 at 9:49am

Alright,Shapes, first of all, let us not forget we are talking about "fictional characters" here. Let's not go overboard by acting like they exsist. As I said, they are a "metaphor" in a way, for the everyday temptations that we, as human beings face.

now,I think you're being unfair in regards to the vampires in THIS series.The vampires in Twilight are unlike any other vampires in all the other vampire stories.Sure they killed humans at one point.A point when they could not control their blood lust and didn't know any other way.Much like a child. In human developement,we  have a "coming of age" point in our lives where we start becoming accountible for our actions. Same goes for vampires. New borns have absolutely no control over their blood lust. Like children,they have to be taught. And,if they are brought up in the wrong environment, they learn that killing is ok and they should just give into their blood lust.

All I am saying about Twilight is that I applaud Stephenie Meyer for giving her vampires a conscience and a respect for human life. Otherwise they would just go on killing humans with no remorse whatsoever. You have to give the Cullen's credit for that. And how could you say Edward doesn't care about Bella?The guy did EVERYTHING he could to KEEP from falling in love with her.He even LEFT. But, he found that leaving only put her in more danger. She would have either killed herself or GOTTEN herself killed out of recklessness. And this tore Edward up inside when he thought she was dead.How could you say that is not love?.And the Cullens DID stop killing for humanitarian reasons. Edward said "I don't want to be a monster". Carlisle said "I knew who I wanted to be,I wanted to help people.By all accounts,we're damned,regardless.But,I hope,maybe foolishly,we get some measure of credit for trying."He also said "In the 400yrs since I've been born I have never seen anything that has made me doubt whether God exists in one form or another"This proves that Carlisle still has faith in God and that he and the Cullens still have a chance at redemption despite what they are.Otherwise,he would just raise his family as other vampires-with no remorse or respect for human life.Now come on. Does this sound like a typical "Cold one"? Does this sound like a "lack of passion" as you put it? Again,this goes back to racism and discrimination.You are judging people based on their affiliation with a certain group rather than their individual actions and merits.I agree that vampires are a metaphor for sinners. But,like I said, The Cullen's are a metaphor for Christians who refuse to give into their vampyric lusts. They chose to find a way to not have to kill humans in order to survive. My God,man! What more can you ask from a vampire?! The only thing that disappointed me about the Twilight saga was, since Stephenie Meyer is a Christian(even though I don't agree with her particular form of Christianity) she didn't mention the fact that the Blood of Jesus Christ is the ONLY blood that gives eternal life and that,just maybe,if the Cullens had accepted that,they may have found redemption. Which is why Carlisle raised his family the way he did to begin with. He wanted redemption since he himself wasn't given a choice to be who he was.And the only reason he turned any of the other Cullen's was because they were dying and suffering(sure,that was a misguided reason.But, he had good intentions)Again,does this sound like a typical "cold one"? No.

Now lets talk about what you said here "killing other human beings is a heinous sin, even to do so once, would be bad enough, regardless of any fleshly thirst, or whip of emotion at the time."- What you are saying is that there are sins that are unforgivable.Which is not true,according to the bible the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Even murder is forgivable. The Cullen's have killed,yes. But they stop,realizing it is wrong. And,if you want to get technical-The bible says that if you "hate" someone, you have committed murder in your heart.So,basically, everyone has committed murder at one point in their lives. So,if that is unforgivable,all of us are going to hell.Does that sound right to you?Don't you think God is more forgiving than that?And,yes,MOST vampires take pleasure out of killing.But does everything I just said sound like the Cullens take pleasure in it? no.

"Vampires represent a life where one has lost love  and becomeself-centered. To survive, they have to kill. They take pleasure out of killing others. The type of person that gets some girl pregnant, and leaves them to bring it up on their own. Someone who is cold. Someone who does damage to those around them, not caring about the consequences, only their own gratification." everything you say here is contrary to Edward and the Cullens. ESPECIALLY Edward. If you ask me ,its BELLA who is 'cold and someone who does damage to those around them, not caring about the consequences,only their own gratification.' So,in that way, BELLA is more evil than the Cullens or ANY of the vampires.

 

Now,I do agree that Jacob would have been a better choice for Bella,from a moral standpoint. And you are right,the shapeshifters do nothing that is sinful. And Edward knows that. The LAST thing Edward wanted was to condemn Bella to being a vampire which was why he was trying to postpone turning her as long as he could.He was trying to find a different way.But he wants to give Bella what SHE wants. He is being anything BUT self-serving. So,If you want to talk about who is the most evil here,it's Bella.


Comment by TwilightTrinity AKA Shaun on June 14, 2011 at 10:01am
Of all three charactors(Bella,Edward and Jacob) Bella is the only true evil one
Comment by Black Green Eyed One (Shapes) on June 14, 2011 at 10:13am

Good comment Shaun.

 

Comment by TwilightTrinity AKA Shaun on June 14, 2011 at 10:15am
I really wanted to keep this in Email,man.I just KNOW thiis is going to spark a HUGE debate and that's what I was trying to prevent.That's why I didn't want to talk about it in the chat.I really wish you would have kept this discussion in email
Comment by Black Green Eyed One (Shapes) on June 14, 2011 at 11:39am

Shaun

 

Well the good thing is, I like debates. And since we agree on so many values, marriage etc, I don't think our debate is going to be a problem, I think it's just when others get involved who might not believe in the same values we do. We can keep it friendly...but if it gets too much, sure, I can delete. 

1. How could you say that is not love?.And the Cullens DID stop killing for humanitarian reasons. Edward said "I don't want to be a monster".

Yes, but that doesn't mean they stopped for humanitarian reasons. But, I'll give you credit. You have the better point on that one. So, the Cullens developed a conscience after killing countless humans. 

2. "This proves that Carlisle still has faith in God and that he and the Cullens still have a chance at redemption despite what they are."

I agree. Carlisle is not an atheist, but it's a long way off being saved. OK, now I'm going to sound a little engrossed by acting like these are really real characters, but we have to don't we? If I were completely true to myself, I'd say that the Cullens are definitively the most moral vampires around, both in the series and in all other media I know, but still that does not make them good people. I guess we can say the Cullens are trying hard to be moral, despite their clearly not intended to be moral people. 

3.  The Cullen's are a metaphor for Christians who refuse to give into their vampyric lusts. 

Um? Well, I don't think so, what would that make Shapeshifters? Shapeshifters are more righteous than the Cullens. They don't go killing and hurting people although they have the power to do so. I don't think any Shapeshifter has ever killed a human. And it's incredibly hard for Shapeshifters to control their raging emotions, where's their credit? 

4.  What you are saying is that there are sins that are unforgivable.

That's not true. Shawn, don't tell me that at the time they were changed, they didn't know that killing humans was wrong, haha. They were humans once themselves, and particularly Carlisle and others would have been brought up in predominantly Christian era's. Anyone can change given centuries to change. 

5. everything you say here is contrary to Edward and the Cullens. ESPECIALLY Edward. If you ask me ,its BELLA who is 'cold and someone who does damage to those around them, not caring about the consequences,only their own gratification.

Why is Bella the evil one Shaun? Carlsile and other Cullens have killed hundreds of humans, Bella hasn't. When Bella was transformed, she didn't kill any humans and her thirst would have been the greatest as a newborn. 

6. Now,I do agree that Jacob would have been a better choice for Bella,from a moral standpoint. And you are right,the shapeshifters do nothing that is sinful.

That's brilliant. We have a consensus, haha. 

7. But he wants to give Bella what SHE wants. He is being anything BUT self-serving. So,If you want to talk about who is the most evil here,it's Bella.

But isn't Edward being selfish? He wants Bella so bad, he's willing to sin more to get her? Should we blame Bella, when Edward gave in to Bella's tempting? Should we blame the Eve, or Adam? 

 

Thanks 

Shapes

 

Comment by Black Green Eyed One (Shapes) on June 14, 2011 at 11:50am

Shawn

 

Seriously, if Cullens represent Christians, then the Shapeshifters represent the priesthood, haha, because the morality of Shapeshifters is way above that of vampires (and cullens). 

 

Thanks

Shapes. 

Comment by TwilightTrinity AKA Shaun on June 14, 2011 at 1:09pm

1. How could you say that is not love?.And the Cullens DID stop killing for humanitarian reasons. Edward said "I don't want to be a monster".

Yes, but that doesn't mean they stopped for humanitarian reasons. But, I'll give you credit. You have the better point on that one. So, the Cullens developed a conscience after killing countless humans.

 

Actually,we don;t really know how many humans the Cullen's killed before developing a conscience.Other than Rosalie,who did it out of revenge.So,I think saying "countless" is unfair. Again,before a child grows and fully developes a conscience of their own, they sin "countless" times. So,I think we can compare it to that.

 

2. "This proves that Carlisle still has faith in God and that he and the Cullens still have a chance at redemption despite what they are."

I agree. Carlisle is not an atheist, but it's a long way off being saved. OK, now I'm going to sound a little engrossed by acting like these are really real characters, but we have to don't we? If I were completely true to myself, I'd say that the Cullens are definitively the most moral vampires around, both in the series and in all other media I know, but still that does not make them good people. I guess we can say the Cullens are trying hard to be moral, despite their clearly not intended to be moral people. 

It does make tham good people,actually.I think what you are trying to say that it doesn't make them PERFECT people. After all,we all possess a carnal lust of some form.But,the fact that we do what we can to supress that lust,makes us,at the very least,decent people--just not PERFECT.

 

3.  The Cullen's are a metaphor for Christians who refuse to give into their vampyric lusts. 

Um? Well, I don't think so, what would that make Shapeshifters? Shapeshifters are more righteous than the Cullens. They don't go killing and hurting people although they have the power to do so. I don't think any Shapeshifter has ever killed a human. And it's incredibly hard for Shapeshifters to control their raging emotions, where's their credit?

 

Oh,I do give the shapeshifters credit.I said so-I said the shapeshifters do nothing sinful. However,we don't know if they have ever killed humans either.So,to say they havent is unfair too. Remember whats her name with the scarred face. Sam lost control and attacked her. Could've happend to anyone-vampire or shapeshifter. So we would have to hold that against Sam to be fair.

4.  What you are saying is that there are sins that are unforgivable.

That's not true. Shawn, don't tell me that at the time they were changed, they didn't know that killing humans was wrong, haha. They were humans once themselves, and particularly Carlisle and others would have been brought up in predominantly Christian era's. Anyone can change given centuries to change. 

If I said they didn't KNOW it was wrong,my mistake.What I meant was that it took time until they were able to control it in any way.

5. everything you say here is contrary to Edward and the Cullens. ESPECIALLY Edward. If you ask me ,its BELLA who is 'cold and someone who does damage to those around them, not caring about the consequences,only their own gratification.

Why is Bella the evil one Shaun? Carlsile and other Cullens have killed hundreds of humans, Bella hasn't. When Bella was transformed, she didn't kill any humans and her thirst would have been the greatest as a newborn. 

Bella didn't kill anyone because she was IMMEDIATELY protected from doing so and brought up in an environment where she was taught another way.Had she been turned and left to her own devices,she would have. When I say she is more evil than the Cullen's,I say that because she doesn't even seem to care one way or another. No does she care that she may,potentially,be sacrificing her soul for love. All she cares about is being with Edward. The Cullen's DO care.

 

7. But he wants to give Bella what SHE wants. He is being anything BUT self-serving. So,If you want to talk about who is the most evil here,it's Bella.

But isn't Edward being selfish? He wants Bella so bad, he's willing to sin more to get her? Should we blame Bella, when Edward gave in to Bella's tempting? Should we blame the Eve, or Adam? 

 

Edward was never willing to sin more to get her until he was faced with the possibility of losing her and he felt he had to make a split decision right then and there. Had he more time to think it over,I don't think he would have turned her(But that's just my opinion.I seriously think that,since he loved her so much,he would have let her go in peace rather than condemn her to being a vampire,if he had more time to think it over

 

Comment by Black Green Eyed One (Shapes) on June 14, 2011 at 1:52pm

Hey Shawn,

This is great. 

 

1. Actually,we don;t really know how many humans the Cullen's killed before developing a conscience.

 

True.

 

2. It does make tham good people,actually.I think what you are trying to say that it doesn't make them PERFECT people. After all,we all possess a carnal lust of some form.But,the fact that we do what we can to supress that lust,makes us,at the very least,decent people--just not PERFECT.

 

True. But their cravings almost make them almost worst than humans. Even humans don't crave blood. A good vampire is still a bit of an oxymoron in my mind. 

 

3. Oh,I do give the shapeshifters credit.I said so-I said the shapeshifters do nothing sinful. However,we don't know if they have ever killed humans either.

 

True. But it's unlikely. They have moral standards. The incident with thescarred face was an accident. 

 

5. "When I say she is more evil than the Cullen's,I say that because she doesn't even seem to care one way or another. No does she care that she may,potentially,be sacrificing her soul for love. All she cares about is being with Edward. The Cullen's DO care."

 

If the Cullens care so much, why did Carslile see changing his wife, Emmett and Edward as reasonable? He too made decisions thinking that being  a vampire would be better than to have to suffer a painful death, or simply, to have to die. Is he any more righteous than Bella?

 

7. Had he more time to think it over,I don't think he would have turned her

 

Edward had been a vampire since 1918, making him about about 90 years old. A 90 year old vampire is going to know what consequences decisions will make. So we can't keep defending Adam here and condemning Eve. It's unfair. He knows that humans find vampires infatuating and he made a good job showing off his powers in the first book, haha. 

 

Our analysis

You think that the Cullens could represent Christians. I don't. It doesn't add up. They are five groups in Twilight: Humans,  Vampires (and Volturi)  Shapeshifters (and Werewolves). We have already decided that the Cullens are the most moral vampires (a bit of an oxymoron), but that Shapeshifters are a lot more "righteous", in that, not only do they believe in the sanctity of marriage, but they also need an imprint. I think Vampires could represent religion in general ruled by the Volturi, a type of Satan, and the Cullens represent a moral elite within the religious group itself. They are many groups or small bands of vampires...Shapeshifters however are telepathically connected, and work as a family. They can also regenerate. They clearly do not like vampires but are willing to work with the Cullens. In some ways, Shapeshifters are like guardian angels, or a priesthood. Interestingly, the Quillette claims to have possessed the ability to roam as ghosts, like angels, outside of the body. 

 

Thanks

Shapes. 

Comment by Black Green Eyed One (Shapes) on June 14, 2011 at 2:20pm

Hey

 

But in a very small minded way, I just figured that vampires (cold ones) [and excluding the unusual Cullens] represent the cold people of the world who do not want to love, or sinners. They find it difficult to love because they would seem soulless. They are blood thirsty, and that in itself, says it all. These can represent Christians too, because loads of Christians are guilty of some really horrible crimes. The Roman Catholic Church is. The Pope has abused his position and legislated torture and ignored abuse claims simply to give an impression of innocence. Horrible. 

 

Thanks

Shapes

Comment by TwilightTrinity AKA Shaun on June 14, 2011 at 2:59pm

2." True. But their cravings almost make them almost worst than humans. Even humans don't crave blood. A good vampire is still a bit of an oxymoron in my mind."

My Response: Bro(If I may call you that) Consider this-Vampires NEED blood in order to survive.Werewolves can,not only live on human food,but it gives them the same satisfaction as it does for us. As Edward said "Feeding on animal blood is like a someone living on tofu.It sustains but never fully satisfies." So there is ALOT more pressure and temptation on vampires.So,the Cullen's deserve more credit than werewolves/shapeshifters do.

3."True. But it's unlikely. They have moral standards. The incident with thescarred face was an accident"

My Response:SO DO THE CULLEN'S!. The Cullens don't kill for pleasure! lol

5." If the Cullens care so much, why did Carslile see changing his wife, Emmett and Edward as reasonable? He too made decisions thinking that being  a vampire would be better than to have to suffer a painful death, or simply, to have to die. Is he any more righteous than Bella?"

My Response:I'm not sure about Emmett or Esme. As for Edward,Carlisle made a vow to Edward's mother to do everything in his "power" to save Edward's life.She couldnt possibly comprehend what she was asking. But, he did it because it was her dying wish. AND because he knew that the fever Edward had was an excruciating and slow way to die.

7.

Had he more time to think it over,I don't think he would have turned her

 

"Edward had been a vampire since 1918, making him about about 90 years old. A 90 year old vampire is going to know what consequences decisions will make. So we can't keep defending Adam here and condemning Eve. It's unfair. He knows that humans find vampires infatuating and he made a good job showing off his powers in the first book, haha". 

My Response: Edward had never been faced with the prospect of someone he cared for SO DEEPLY,dying before. Sure,he had been enticed by a woman's blood and had probably fell in love a few times in 90yrs.But never this much. And when Nessie was literally SUCKING the life out of Bella and,ultimately, fixing to burst through Bella like a scene from "Alien" lol, he was,abruptly faced with a decision-And,with this decision, he had to think "Is Carlisle right?Can we still be redeemed even though we are vampires?does that really make us automatically cursed and damed?And,if so,maybe Bella could still be redeemed after I turn her and we could all live happily ever after." So all that had to be going through Edward's mind at that moment

 

"You think that the Cullens could represent Christians. I don't. It doesn't add up. They are five groups in Twilight: Humans,  Vampires (and Volturi)  Shapeshifters (and Werewolves). We have already decided that the Cullens are the most moral vampires (a bit of an oxymoron), but that Shapeshifters are a lot more "righteous", in that, not only do they believe in the sanctity of marriage, but they also need an imprint. I think Vampires could represent religion in general ruled by the Volturi, a type of Satan, and the Cullens represent a moral elite within the religious group itself. They are many groups or small bands of vampires...Shapeshifters however are telepathically connected, and work as a family. They can also regenerate. They clearly do not like vampires but are willing to work with the Cullens. In some ways, Shapeshifters are like guardian angels, or a priesthood. Interestingly, the Quillette claims to have possessed the ability to roam as ghosts, like angels, outside of the body.

My response:I agree with ALMOST everything here.Except who is to say who is "most righteous"? The bible says "There is none righteous.No,not one"--Which is exactly why Jesus had to die for us. None of us can live up to God's standard of righteousness or perfection. I don't think the shapeshifters OR the Cullens would be so arrogant as to say who is more righteous than the other.Then again,Jacob does act all high and mighty at times.The Cullens also believe in the sanctity of marriage.Why do you think Edward used that as one of the terms and conditions of turning Bella himself??(Even though he,originally, had no intention of turning her anyway) And your making another arrogant statement comparing shapeshifters to angels or the priesthood. Angels are perfect beings and Shapeshifters(although they are very good) are far from perfect,themselves.  Everything else--such as

"They are five groups in Twilight: Humans,  Vampires (and Volturi)  Shapeshifters (and Werewolves). We have already decided that the Cullens are the most moral vampires (a bit of an oxymoron), but that Shapeshifters are a lot more "righteous", in that, not only do they believe in the sanctity of marriage, but they also need an imprint. I think Vampires could represent religion in general ruled by the Volturi, a type of Satan, and the Cullens represent a moral elite within the religious group itself." I can pretty much agree with

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